### Log session started at Wed Nov 8 00:00:01 2006 ###
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[00:08:57] <@dbaron> Oy, yet another national election that's probably going to come down to a few thousand votes in one state.
[00:09:49] <@dbaron> (or maybe 2 or 3)
[00:10:16] <reed> typical
[00:10:36] <Bernd> and the winner is: diebold voting machines?
[00:10:39] <@dbaron> it wasn't typical 6 years ago
[00:11:02] <@dbaron> well, 6 years and 6 hours ago
[00:14:55] <A`ja> MO's trending blue now that metro areas are reporting,,,,but a few thousand could indeed be tipping point 
[00:15:40] <sayrer> god I hate that an election in Montana affects me
[00:15:47] <A`ja> lol
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[00:16:01] <sayrer> I live in New York City,ffs
[00:16:03] <Bernd> dbaron: will they recount if the result is so close?
[00:16:11] <bz_gone> Bernd: yeah
[00:16:17] <@dbaron> Bernd, maybe in Virginia
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[00:16:42] <@dbaron> bz, don't be so sure
[00:17:12] <bz> dbaron: hmm
[00:17:18] bz is checking
[00:17:29] <bz> "In Virginia, there are no automatic recounts. Only the apparent losing candidate can ask for a recount, and only if the difference between the apparent winning and losing candidate is 1% or less of the total votes cast for the two candidates. 
[00:17:34] <bz> he apparent loser cannot request a recount until after the election is certified. "
[00:17:45] <bz> (this is off of virginia.gov)
[00:17:57] <bz> So yeah
[00:18:02] <bz> they might not request a recount, true
[00:18:04] <A`ja> and it's currently 1/2 of 1% in VA Sen race
[00:18:11] <bz> um....
[00:18:16] <bz> not last I checked
[00:18:23] <bz> Last I checked the margin was 2000 votes
[00:18:34] <bz> on a baseline of 2.3 million total votes cast or something
[00:18:38] <bz> so more like 0.1%
[00:18:47] <A`ja> dan...even closer
[00:18:52] <A`ja> damn
[00:18:55] <@dbaron> virginia.gov and CNN have been consistently off all evening
[00:19:02] <@dbaron> CNN says about 2500, gov says about 1800, IIRC
[00:19:13] <@dbaron> with different numbers
[00:19:49] <bz> yeah
[00:19:50] <sayrer> wait, that's the the state with the racial slur senator
[00:19:56] <bz> MSNBC reported on that at some point
[00:20:05] <sayrer> and he isn't getting trounced
[00:20:06] <bz> sayrer: yeah.  He's the one down about 2000 votes.  ;)
[00:20:17] <bz> "Registered Voters: 4,555,672   Total Voting: 2,331,793   Voter Turnout: 51.18 % "
[00:20:22] bz thinks that about says it all
[00:20:37] <bz> (that's for Virginia)
[00:20:52] <sayrer> so diebold says!
[00:21:22] <@dbaron> that's high turnout for a midterm election
[00:21:30] <@dbaron> although maybe not as % of registered
[00:21:56] <@dbaron> btw, can the tree reopen?
[00:22:16] <@dbaron> or was there a fix required on the tinderbox machines?
[00:22:30] <bz> dbaron: if the tinderbox server is actually serving up pages now, sure
[00:22:44] <@dbaron> things turned green agani
[00:22:45] <bz> dbaron: I closed it when it was hanging for 2-3 minutes then giving me a 500
[00:22:53] <bz> dbaron: when loading any tinderbox page
[00:22:54] dbaron wonders why PA-06 is only at 78% counted
[00:23:08] <@dbaron> bz, yeah, seems to be
[00:23:17] bz hits the reload button
[00:23:31] <bz> aaaand it's thinking
[00:23:41] <A`ja> iVotronic touch screens here...no paper trail...or you can opt to use a paper ballot / scanner which does have a paper trail.  wouldn't that make for an interesting recount
[00:23:46] <@dbaron> oh, yeah, it's 1.5 hours out of date
[00:23:49] <@dbaron> bz, did you file a sysadmin bug?
[00:24:06] <bz> dbaron: haven't had a chance to yet
[00:24:15] bz should do that
[00:24:32] <bz> too much running around.  :(
[00:25:57] <A`ja> bz: tinderbox-stage has been a bit quicker
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[00:26:25] <A`ja> not much though
[00:26:29] <gavin> I thought tinderbox-stage was moved to tinderbox last week
[00:26:52] <@dbaron> bz, apparently the tinderbox server's clock got off by an hour
[00:26:53] <A`ja> new code got copied over
[00:26:55] <@dbaron> (time zone?)
[00:27:14] <bz> dbaron: 359920 filed
[00:29:47] <ispiked> I'm still concerned about how bl-bldxp01 is reporting a tp2 average of like 50ms.
[00:30:06] <@dbaron> anyway, justdave says he fixed the tinderbox sluggishness
[00:31:21] <@dbaron> ooh, lots more tinderbox data just appeared
[00:31:29] <A`ja> and rhelmer fixed the tp2 crash
[00:31:31] <ispiked> yeah... :O
[00:32:31] <ispiked> Linux argo-vm Depend Nightly
[00:32:31] <ispiked> Started 22:00, finished 21:00
[00:32:33] <ispiked> 59 minutes elapsed
[00:32:36] <ispiked> uhm...
[00:32:46] <ispiked> something isn't right.
[00:33:27] <rhelmer> ispiked: hm. the tp2 50ms is odd.
[00:33:28] <@dbaron> start time is client, end time is server
[00:33:36] <rhelmer> ispiked: it has data in the log too.
[00:36:11] <ispiked> rhelmer: you're sure you copied the pageset over properly?
[00:36:13] dbaron likes http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/house/map.html but wants it to be a little bigger
[00:36:36] <rhelmer> ispiked: I'll check it out
[00:36:48] <rhelmer> ispiked: kind of looks like it's not loading the pages properly eh
[00:37:22] <rhelmer> ispiked: yeah that's the problem .. le sigh
[00:37:38] <ispiked> rhelmer: what's exactly is wrong?
[00:37:58] <rhelmer> ispiked: it is cycling through pages that aren't there
[00:38:02] <rhelmer> ispiked: hence the quick load time :)
[00:38:09] <ispiked> rhelmer: ah!
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[00:39:59] <ispiked> there's a lot more red on that map than I expected.
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[00:40:52] <@dbaron> ispiked, well, it's by land area rather than population
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[00:41:50] <rhelmer> ispiked: alright, copied the right pageset in on the xp box, thanks again :)
[00:42:05] <ispiked> rhelmer: cool.
[00:43:09] <bz> btw... is there a reason bonsai is lying too?
[00:43:16] <bz> eg http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsview2.cgi?diff_mode=context&whitespace_mode=show&subdir=mozilla/content/xul/document/src&command=DIFF_FRAMESET&file=nsXULDocument.cpp&rev1=1.735&rev2=1.736&root=/cvsroot
[00:43:28] <bz> That's a checkin from 2006-11-07 18:25
[00:43:32] <bz> So I'd expect to see diffs by now....
[00:44:48] A`ja is putting MO Senate race into blue column
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[00:44:56] <rhelmer> ispiked: this test is checked out from cvs on the test machines, should be smoother next time.. loading the full pageset dynamically'd still be useful though
[00:45:24] <rhelmer> ispiked: it was just a copy before
[00:45:52] <ispiked> rhelmer: dynamically in what sense?
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[00:46:28] <rhelmer> ispiked: load the pageset from js
[00:46:30] <@dbaron> A`ja, assuming evenly sized precincts, it would only need to go 54-46 R for the remaining 15% to turn it
[00:46:42] <ispiked> rhelmer: oh right. 
[00:46:49] <@dbaron> A`ja, that said, last precincts are *probably* urban
[00:47:03] <bz> wh ich component do bonsai bugs go in?
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[00:47:12] <@dbaron> Webtools/bonsai ?
[00:47:12] <bz> server ops?
[00:47:16] <ispiked> webtools?
[00:47:22] <bz> well
[00:47:23] <A`ja> bet CNN calls it within minutes
[00:47:30] <bz> I mean "bonsai.mozilla.org is not working" bugs
[00:47:32] <rhelmer> ispiked: i started playing with it earlier; i guess it could be done either through document.write("<script..") or xmlhttprequest.. 
[00:47:33] <bz> not "bonsai has a bug" bugs
[00:47:38] <reed> bz: server ops
[00:47:40] <bz> ok
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[00:48:22] <ispiked> rhelmer: if I understand you correctly, why not just use file:// URIs?
[00:48:29] <ispiked> rhelmer: or would that be an additional thing to try?
[00:48:51] <bz> reed: thanks
[00:49:14] <rhelmer> ispiked: how would you do that?
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[00:51:12] <rhelmer> ispiked: if it was dynamic on the server side you could load a local file 
[00:51:19] <ispiked> rhelmer: are we talking about loading the individual pages or loading the set of pages to test?
[00:51:58] <rhelmer> ispiked: the set, just the location of the pages
[00:52:09] <rhelmer> they would have to be present on the server for this to work
[00:52:14] <ispiked> rhelmer: the thouht came to me: why not just look at what's in directory "x"?
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[00:52:39] <ispiked> rhelmer: for each folder in somefolder ...
[00:53:06] <ispiked> rhelmer: 'cause that's basically what it is now, except we hardcode the folder names.
[00:53:21] <rhelmer> ispiked: that's because we can't do that from the browser :)
[00:53:46] <rhelmer> ispiked: tp2 is all client-side 
[00:53:59] <ispiked> oh right.
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[00:56:14] <ispiked> well, I need to get to bed.
[00:56:23] <gavin> dbaron: http://gavinsharp.com/tmp/elec.html :)
[00:56:26] <reed> sleep is for the weak
[00:56:49] <@dbaron> gavin, what's different?
[00:56:52] <ispiked> reed: ever tried not sleeping for a few days? ;)
[00:56:55] <gavin> bigger
[00:57:04] <@dbaron> gavin, looks the same size to me
[00:57:11] <gavin> well, it's full screen
[00:57:13] <ispiked> if I maximize my browser window it gets bigger.
[00:57:22] <gavin> mostly I had fun reverse engineering it
[00:57:26] <@dbaron> my screen's not that big, it's a laptop
[00:57:32] <reed> ispiked: I get about 3 hours or less sleep per night.
[00:57:55] <bz> reed: that can't be a good idea..
[00:57:57] <ispiked> reed: I find that hard to believe.
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[00:58:10] <reed> well, it's true ;)
[00:58:12] <@dbaron> reed, do you learn anything in your classes?
[00:58:21] <reed> no, I'm fairly bored
[00:58:23] <ispiked> reed: did you do this in high school, too?
[00:58:45] <reed> classes are easy
[00:58:52] <reed> ispiked: mostly
[00:58:57] <reed> I might have had a few more hours
[00:59:07] <@dbaron> Ooh, new returns in Virginia bumped Webb up a good bit
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[00:59:31] <@dbaron> at least on the gov't site
[00:59:32] <ispiked> I'm unsure of how much of sleep is resting the mind vs. how much is resting the body.
[00:59:34] <bz> dbaron: url?
[00:59:43] <@dbaron> http://sbe.virginiainteractive.org/
[01:00:07] <@dbaron> (from a 1500 margin to an 8000 margin)
[01:00:19] <bz> yeah
[01:00:56] <@dbaron> of course, the real thing to watch is http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/searchPageBuilder.jsp?grpID=4391
[01:01:08] <@dbaron> people betting on the election in real time
[01:01:15] <ispiked> haha.
[01:01:32] <@dbaron> much more useful way to track the results -- let the betters track them for you
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[01:04:42] <bz> heh
[01:04:49] <bz> does involve understanding the shorthand... ;)
[01:05:58] <A`ja> incumbent R-MO Sen Talent is giving concession speech
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[01:10:00] <bz> So montana is still up in the air, right?
[01:10:27] <@dbaron> yeah, although leaning D
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[01:10:49] <Symmetria> lo all
[01:11:15] <@dbaron> 10.5K margin on 250K (65%) counted
[01:11:34] <bz> which makes it 48-49-2
[01:11:37] <bz> plus virginia
[01:12:01] <@dbaron> the two Is are both Ds, we hope
[01:12:12] <@dbaron> although Lieberman might be a little questionable
[01:12:25] <sayrer> Lieberman is a Republican
[01:12:47] <@dbaron> If he'll vote for a Democratic speaker they should give him a committee chair for it if he wants it.
[01:12:48] <A`ja> and the other I's a Socialist
[01:12:56] <Symmetria> heh so they havent called the senate yet?
[01:12:57] <@dbaron> er, ml
[01:13:00] <bz> mmmm
[01:13:03] <Symmetria> or have they?
[01:13:04] <bz> nothing like Gecko crashing
[01:13:07] bz hates flash
[01:13:08] <@dbaron> Symmetria, no
[01:13:14] <sascha-> lieberman was the jackass who ran even if he was not voted for in the primaries, no?
[01:13:19] <bz> Symmetria: I doubt they will for a while....
[01:13:27] <@dbaron> Symmetria, Senate probably won't be called for at least 12 hours
[01:13:28] <A`ja> sascha: right
[01:13:30] <bz> sascha-: what exactly about that makes him a jackass?
[01:13:34] <Symmetria> heh, dbaron unless its fox news :p
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[01:13:49] <Symmetria> fox news will scream its republican 10 days after everyone else calls it for the dems :p
[01:13:56] <bz> Some days I wonder why I use our browser... then I try the other ones.  :(
[01:13:57] <Symmetria> and a week before the voting even starts :p
[01:13:59] <sascha-> bz, not respecting the two-party and thus two-candidate consensus
[01:14:10] <bz> sascha-: I wish more people would do that
[01:14:36] <bz> sascha-: The two party system as practiced in this country is one of the things that pisses me off the most about the electoral process
[01:14:58] <bz> sascha-: I should not that he won, btw.
[01:15:02] <bz> sascha-: er, note.
[01:15:06] <sascha-> bz, I'd be more pissed off by rezoning and people trying to be elected being the actual vote chair (as in Ohio)
[01:15:16] <dolphinling> bz: Two parties is a natural consequence of the voting system we use.
[01:15:49] <A`ja> bz: FWIW donkey (jackass) is Dem party symbol
[01:15:52] <bz> sascha-: really?  What does it take to be a presidential candidate in my state?
[01:16:02] <sascha-> ?
[01:16:09] <sayrer> obama 2008!
[01:16:12] <bz> A`ja: I'm well aware what the Dem party symbol is
[01:16:16] <sascha-> (talking about the position of Ohio governeur)
[01:16:21] <sascha-> that blackwell guy
[01:16:24] <dolphinling> And unfortunately out of all the ballot initiatives that were voted on this year, none were to change to a better voting system. :(
[01:16:28] <bz> sascha-: that was a serious question.  What does it take to get on the presidential ballot in the state of Illinois?
[01:16:32] <@dbaron> montana returns are at http://sos.state.mt.us/ELB/archives/2006/elections/general/ussenate/index.asp
[01:16:35] <bz> dolphinling: yeah, that is sadly true
[01:17:00] <sascha-> bz, being white, male, christian?
[01:17:02] <@dbaron> bz, I doubt it's harder than in Pennsylvania, but anyway...
[01:17:05] <sascha-> oh, and wealthy
[01:17:11] <bz> sascha-: Let's finish the illinois thing.  I think it's illustrative of why I have a hard time getting worked up about the ohio thing
[01:17:21] <bz> sascha-: well, true.  But legally you also need signatures.
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[01:17:25] <bz> sascha-: 25,000 of them.
[01:17:28] <sascha-> so?
[01:17:32] <@dbaron> only 25K?
[01:17:36] <bz> sascha-: Except if you're Republican or Democrat.
[01:17:42] <sascha-> haha
[01:17:43] <bz> sascha-: in which case you need 5,000
[01:17:58] <reed> any reason the tree is still closed (according to my tinderstatus extension)
[01:18:01] <bz> sascha-: And _this_ is why I think the system stinks.  Both parties game it all the time to lock out everyone else.
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[01:18:18] <bz> sascha-: the Ohio thing is a special case of a very general trent.
[01:18:21] <bz> er, trend.
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[01:18:44] <sascha-> I'd suggest a round of beheadings
[01:18:51] <sascha-> it's about time
[01:19:37] A`ja drags out the guilotine
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[01:20:25] <bz> libXt.so.6 + 0x1b7cf (0x058087cf)
[01:20:25] <bz> libXt.so.6 + 0x1bc70 (0x05808c70)
[01:20:26] <bz> libXt.so.6 + 0x26ced (0x05813ced)
[01:20:29] <bz> yay.
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[01:20:35] <bz> ...
[01:20:36] <bz> libflashplayer.so + 0x17ca72 (0x0210ca72)
[01:20:46] <bz> ...
[01:20:47] <bz> nsAppShell::ProcessNextNativeEvent()  [mozilla/widget/src/gtk2/nsAppShell.cpp, line 145]
[01:20:51] sascha- saw Borat yesterday. during the rodeo scene he shouts "May Bush drink the blood of all iraque men, women and children."
[01:20:53] <bz> ^&^%&^%& flash
[01:20:56] <sascha-> the crowd was wild.
[01:21:00] <bz> sascha-: how was the movie?
[01:21:01] <sascha-> with enthusiam
[01:21:05] <sascha-> enthusiasm
[01:21:08] A`ja takes that back, for the record...in case the FBI's listening
[01:21:19] <timeless> borat was great
[01:21:31] <sascha-> bz, funny to some degree
[01:21:31] <bz> Of course if seamonkey had working session restore I'd be set... :(
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[01:53:27] <sayrer> damn, why is the tree still closed
[01:53:46] <reed> because somebody forgot to reopen it? :)
[01:54:11] <sayrer> srsly?
[01:54:21] <reed> afaik
[01:54:28] <reed> It was closed due to bonsai issues
[01:54:35] <reed> bonsai and tinderbox
[01:54:41] <reed> and both have been fixed :)
[01:54:58] <sayrer> there is still one orange Fx box
[01:55:15] reed looks
[01:55:56] <reed> looks open to me
[01:55:56] <reed> "The tree is open"
[01:56:15] <bz_sleep> I just opened it
[01:56:18] <@dbaron> why's the mac orange?
[01:56:22] <bz_sleep> but no checking in on orange, of course
[01:56:23] <firebot> SeaMonkey has changed state from closed to open.
[01:56:36] <firebot> Firefox has changed state from closed to open.
[01:56:47] <firebot> Thunderbird has changed state from closed to open.
[01:56:47] <sayrer> Error: firefox-bin: dumped core.
[01:56:49] <sayrer> MozillaAliveTest: test failed
[01:56:53] <firebot> Camino has changed state from closed to open.
[01:57:02] <firebot> Mozilla1.8 has changed state from closed to open.
[01:57:04] <reed> rhelmer forgot that box maybe?
[01:57:06] <firebot> Mozilla1.8-SeaMonkey has changed state from closed to open.
[01:57:11] <firebot> Mozilla1.8.0 has changed state from closed to open.
[01:57:15] <firebot> Firefox-Cairo has changed state from closed to open.
[01:57:16] <reed> Looks like he made some test changes on some of the other boxes
[01:57:30] <rhelmer> reed: no, we only have two test-only boxes
[01:57:49] <reed> hmm
[01:57:56] <rhelmer> bl-bld*
[01:58:07] <reed> that just happened to be around the time you were doing that
[01:58:18] <rhelmer> i know :)
[01:58:23] <rhelmer> http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showlog.cgi?log=Firefox/1162954020.15869.gz&fulltext=1
[01:58:28] <rhelmer> Error: firefox-bin: exited with status 16777215
[01:58:30] <rhelmer> Error: firefox-bin: dumped core.
[01:58:56] <reed> If it wasn't you, guilty column says it's either bz or vlad
[02:00:18] <reed> or random tinderbox issue ;)
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[02:03:17] <A`ja> heh...a guy from Allentown smashed a Diebolt.   neo-luddite or ?
[02:04:32] <@dbaron> Is there something about people preferring propositions with lower numbers?  http://vote.ss.ca.gov/Returns/prop/00.htm
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[02:06:01] <A`ja> dbaron: depends on whether or not Arnold wrote them  :)
[02:06:14] <timeless> dbaron: heh
[02:06:21] <timeless> well, last time they picked none of them :)
[02:06:28] <firebot> Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.7.0 xserve05 Depend 1.8 branch' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[02:06:28] <timeless> did arnold lose? :)
[02:06:41] <@dbaron> no, Arnold won
[02:06:41] <A`ja> no, big winner 
[02:06:45] <timeless> :(
[02:06:47] <rhelmer> hm nothing odd on xserve06, doesn't look like anyone has been on in a while
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[02:07:35] <timeless> so, senate is 49/49 w/ 2 undecideds?
[02:07:47] <timeless> and the dems took the house?
[02:08:12] <timeless> wow, and dems got the majority of governorships (not that that matters much)
[02:08:22] <A`ja> looks like the lentil farmer with a flat top may just change the balance of the senate
[02:08:27] <bz_sleep> it matters for 2008
[02:08:45] <timeless> there's no redestricting between now and  then, right?
[02:08:56] <bz_sleep> you sure?  ;)
[02:08:59] <timeless> no
[02:09:05] <bz_sleep> And in many places, of course, it matters for 2010
[02:09:08] <timeless> i'm sitting in helsinki trying to figure out how to be in mv
[02:09:19] <bz_sleep> and in some for 2012
[02:09:22] <timeless> right, 2010 is more important in some ways
[02:09:33] bz_sleep seems to recall some states have 6-year governor terms
[02:09:40] <timeless> hrm
[02:10:04] <timeless> did lieberman got more votes than both lamont and schlesinger?
[02:10:14] <sayrer> yes
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[02:10:19] <timeless> wow :)
[02:10:33] <sayrer> no smiling!!!
[02:10:40] <timeless> why?
[02:10:55] <sayrer> he is a despicable warmonger
[02:11:07] sayrer doesn't like wars
[02:11:28] <timeless> shouldn't you not like most politicians? :)
[02:11:54] <sayrer> I took a survey once
[02:12:04] <timeless> hrm, dbaron: you know anyone calling the california 04, 11 house races?
[02:12:24] <sayrer> one of those that tells you what percentage of your views align with each candidate
[02:12:35] <timeless> wow
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[02:12:53] <timeless> republicans didn't do well in the indiana house races :)
[02:12:58] <sayrer> what was the super liberal democratic presidential candidate?
[02:13:09] <timeless> mondale?
[02:13:18] <sayrer> no
[02:13:20] <sayrer> last election
[02:13:23] <sayrer> Kucinich
[02:13:28] <timeless> oh him
[02:13:31] <timeless> he visited phili
[02:13:36] <sayrer> I got 98% aligned with Kucinich
[02:13:40] <timeless> heh
[02:13:45] <sayrer> and 99% aligned with Al Sharpton!
[02:13:58] timeless wonders if lousiana does runoffs
[02:14:12] <A`ja> they do
[02:14:14] <timeless> the lousiana 02 has like 13 candidates
[02:14:27] <@dbaron> timeless, cnn called 04
[02:14:33] <@dbaron> (R)
[02:15:08] <@dbaron> timeless, it matters for 2008 for things like vote counting
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[02:17:25] <sayrer> Clinton takes 67% in NY State. And no one even likes her!
[02:18:17] <sascha-> that says something about the other candidate(s)
[02:19:07] <sayrer> wonder which side they're counting lieberman on
[02:19:21] <bz_sleep> (D)
[02:19:27] <sayrer> ugh
[02:19:34] <sayrer> so the democrats lost
[02:19:43] <bz_sleep> He says he plans to caucus with the Democrats
[02:19:54] <@dbaron> he might not be the most conservative Democrat caucusing with the Democrats, either
[02:19:55] <bz_sleep> So for committees and stuff that number is right
[02:20:23] <sayrer> dbaron: there are probably more socially conservative democrats in the south
[02:20:38] <bz_sleep> should really sleep....
[02:20:56] <@dbaron> a bunch of the newly-elected (or potentially-newly-elected) Dems are quite conservative
[02:21:14] <@dbaron> Casey (PA), Webb (VA, if he wins), Tester (MT, if he wins)
[02:21:49] <sayrer> I see. We'll take whatever we can get from VA and MT 
[02:21:52] <sayrer> PA is a shame
[02:22:12] <sayrer> but I am probably left of most people on here
[02:23:08] <@dbaron> PA is complicated.
[02:23:14] <@dbaron> It basically has 4 political parties pretending to be two.
[02:23:52] <@dbaron> Since abortion is a bigger issue in PA than in many other states (because it's closely divided) and because the abortion issue splits both parties unusually close to evenly.
[02:25:05] <NeilAway> scrollback request time again... t-8h to t-4h please
[02:25:49] <@dbaron> And Casey (anti-abortion D senator-elect) probably would have won the primary anyway (due to very high name recognition, at least) even if Rendell (the pro-choice D governor) hadn't pushed all his potential opponents out.
[02:26:05] <@dbaron> which he did to avoid a bruising primary.
[02:26:16] <@dbaron> (like the one Rendell and Casey had against each other for governor 4 years back)
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[02:41:44] <A`ja> hrm....MT Senate results not expected til 8am et  because recount needed in yellowstone county
[02:43:23] <timeless> http://disruptive-innovations.com/products/ssr
[02:43:27] <timeless> 404 :(
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[02:49:17] <jeremy> is that where yellowstone national park is?
[02:49:38] <caillon> no.  wrong state, even.
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[02:50:21] <timeless> yellowstone is in 3 states, no?
[02:50:40] timeless can't remember which park was split
[02:51:08] <caillon> sort of.  the designation is in 3 states, but the only useful stuff is in WY.
[02:51:17] <timeless> yes well
[02:51:23] <timeless> i like the trivia about it being in 3 states
[02:51:33] <timeless> the fact that the useful stuff is in one is sorta obvious
[02:51:36] <caillon> MT has like 3 mi sq, and ID has something similar.
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[02:51:52] <caillon> those are just mountains leading up to it.
[02:52:10] <smontagu> Ninety-six percent of the park is located in the state of Wyoming, another three percent is in Montana, and one percent is in Idaho.
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[02:52:27] <@dbaron> And here I was thinking it was just in Wyoming.
[02:53:19] <caillon> none of the park is in Yellowstone County, MT, though.  it's at least a two hour drive, IIRC.
[02:53:48] <@dbaron> Hey, they don't have a monopoly on yellowish rocks.
[02:53:57] <timeless> heh
[02:54:39] <@dbaron> Anyway, sounds like there's not going to be a lot more news until morning.
[02:54:42] <@dbaron> I'm going to sleep.
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[02:54:50] <caillon> no.  yellowstone county is named after the river that goes through it.
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[02:55:39] <A`ja> awww...Kinky Friedman lost         
[02:57:07] <timeless> ooh yum
[02:57:12] timeless is glad to see ehrilich is out
[02:57:19] <timeless> s/il/l/
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[03:00:08] <myk> i can't believe mcnerney is winning
[03:00:29] <timeless> what's interesting about him?
[03:00:47] <Symmetria> heh am I right in thinking from what I just saw on CNN that the dems are still slightly ahead 
[03:00:50] <Symmetria> in virginia
[03:00:52] <Symmetria> and montana
[03:01:06] <Symmetria> virginia by less than a percent, montana by a coupla percent
[03:01:38] <myk> timeless: he was a terrible campaigner, a total clutz of a democrat in a strongly republican district
[03:02:50] <myk> timeless: there's no way he could have won in any regular election; but his opponent, Richard Pombo, has strong ties to Bush and Abramoff along with some other scandal i can't remember now
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[03:03:03] <caillon> i'm surprised burns lasted as long as he did in montana, honestly.  he wasn't well liked from what i remember.
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[03:04:40] <A`ja> myk: great idea about site search....thought about that a while back, but FF2 cutoff was approaching rapidly
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[03:05:22] <myk> A`ja: great idea of yours, then!
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[03:06:26] <A`ja> myk: similar UI to the patch that got backed off might work...just without option to add it to saved list of engines
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[03:08:46] A`ja never worked out what all the various different search parms for the various engines might be, though.
[03:21:30] <A`ja> Webb claimed victory, no concession by Allen
[03:22:06] <A`ja> and on that note.....gnite all
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[03:33:37] <NeilAway> anyone with scrollback, t-9h to t-5h please
[03:37:01] <firebot> New build added to Mozilla1.8-SeaMonkey: WINNT 5.1 tpol Depend (1.1) (status: Success).
[03:43:56] FabryProg [FabryProg@moz-A5423509.lince.it] has joined #developers
[03:44:07] <FabryProg> hello guys!
[03:44:42] <FabryProg> i have one questions..... how i start to develop for mozilla fondation?
[03:45:11] <FabryProg> on mozilla site there are a guide.... but it's confusionary
[03:45:13] <FabryProg> :-|
[03:45:46] <Pike> what do you want to do?
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[03:46:39] <FabryProg> firefox 2 bug?
[03:47:06] <FabryProg> it's a good start point?
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[03:50:39] <Pike> http://www.mozilla.org/contribute/hacking/first-bugs/ is probably a good start, it has a bug query under "More" where you may be able to pick your favorite
[03:52:03] <FabryProg> umm... i'm reading... so... i open a cvs account for checkout the firefox source?! 
[03:52:08] <FabryProg> (tnks) :-p
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[03:53:19] <Pike> FabryProg: you can check out the source without an account via anonymous cvs
[03:53:32] <Pike> that check-out is good enough to build yourself and to do patches
[03:54:38] <FabryProg> good good
[03:55:05] <FabryProg> tnks  :-D i'm italian.. were are you from?
[03:55:10] <FabryProg> *where
[03:55:14] <Pike> I'm in Berlin
[03:55:26] <Pike> I actually did a /whois already, so I knew
[03:55:32] <FabryProg> :-D :-| :-o ;-)
[03:56:06] <Pike> 'Fabry' could have been french, and those have french speaking channels here, which could have helped more, but I didn't find an italian speaking channel
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[03:58:27] <FabryProg> :-o italian it's no used ! :-( then....  i learn english! 
[03:58:35] <FabryProg> my english is very terrible!
[03:58:37] <FabryProg> :-|
[03:58:58] <jeremy> FabryProg: if there's no italian firefox (or even if there is) you can work on translating it
[03:59:19] <Pike> jeremy: there is
[03:59:21] <FabryProg> ummm.... no italian firefox? are you sure?
[04:00:06] <FabryProg> no no there is italian firefox  for win linx and mac
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[04:01:06] <jeremy> FabryProg: so, if you're interested, you can help translate the browser interface as well
[04:01:40] <FabryProg> :-D 
[04:01:49] <FabryProg> jeremy and you? where are you from?
[04:01:57] <jeremy> US
[04:02:24] <jeremy> i don't know enough of any language to translate firefox ;(
[04:02:26] <FabryProg> :-o 
[04:02:52] <FabryProg> you are lucky... english is international languages!
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[04:03:24] <jeremy> would be luckier if i knew more of other languages too ;)
[04:04:33] <jeremy> FabryProg: check out http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/ ,  http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Download_Mozilla_Source_Code ,  and http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Build_Documentation
[04:05:04] <jeremy> err, make that http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Mozilla_Source_Code_Via_CVS
[04:05:16] <FabryProg> tnks.... i'm searching instruction for translate firefox.... there are xml configuration file? 
[04:06:10] <jeremy> no, we use dtds
[04:06:19] <jeremy> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/l10n/
[04:06:35] <Pike> jeremy: do me a favour and don't point to that page?
[04:06:56] <jeremy> Pike: ok.  where to then?  wikimo?
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[04:07:15] <Pike> FabryProg: if you're interested in contributing to the italian localization, you'd want to contact the italian team. Their website is http://www.mozillaitalia.it/
[04:07:58] <Pike> jeremy: for existing locales, http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Localization_Teams is the reference
[04:08:34] <jeremy> and for general info about the l10n process for mozilla apps?
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[04:09:32] <FabryProg> moment... i'm bookmark this links.... :-D
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[04:10:46] <Pike> jeremy: as soon as there's a team, there's not that much of a general process anymore, that's then just landing stuff on frozen branches
[04:11:09] <poningru> Pike: whats wrong with that link?
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[04:11:13] jeremy cringes at the google translation of the italian team's page
[04:11:13] <Pike> everything else is module owner rule, and some work on transformed sources, so you better check what they do first
[04:11:15] <jeremy> Pike: k
[04:11:35] <Pike> poningru: it's damn old rotten textfiles, so rotten that nobody dares to remove them
[04:11:43] <poningru> ...
[04:11:45] <poningru> ic
[04:12:06] <jeremy> sounds familiar re www.m.o ...
[04:12:31] <jeremy> access, fe, is in the process of moving stuff over to wikimo
[04:13:07] <poningru> heh
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[04:13:25] poningru gets Lucy_ a stable connection
[04:13:29] <poningru> err wtf
[04:13:45] poningru realizes this is #developers 
[04:13:48] jeremy asks poningru for a fast connection
[04:14:14] <jeremy> heh
[04:14:22] jeremy switches windows
[04:17:50] <FabryProg> jeremy tnks... the mozillaitalia is a fondation... with a donation and associate card! ... i'm don't like this solution!
[04:18:48] <FabryProg> i'm go to  source checkout
[04:19:05] <FabryProg> see you later.... ( i'm working... :-D )
[04:19:13] <FabryProg> (i'm a java developer)
[04:20:05] <poningru> ouch
[04:20:12] poningru feels bad for FabryProg 
[04:20:52] <jeremy> FabryProg: are you saying they require a donation in order to work with them?  that doesn't sound right
[04:22:18] <FabryProg> jeremy... i'm a start point.... first starting to understand all system THAN i donate :-D
[04:22:48] <FabryProg> are you agree?
[04:22:49] <FabryProg> :-p
[04:23:51] <jeremy> well, i don't really know anything about them.  it's surprising that they would require a donation.  do you know exactly what they want the donation for?
[04:24:00] myk [chatzilla@moz-7B3C332.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[04:24:49] <FabryProg> donation is required for FONDATION MOZILLA ITALIA..... :-| it's legal person...
[04:25:01] <FabryProg> and the associate is LEGAL
[04:25:03] <Pike> huh?
[04:25:31] <FabryProg> but.... this money DON'T go to mozilla.org fondation
[04:25:38] <FabryProg> BUT gone to MOZILLAITALIA
[04:25:47] <FabryProg> now... are you agree?
[04:25:49] <FabryProg> :-D
[04:26:09] jeremy orders a translator ;(
[04:26:48] <Pike> FabryProg: I know that Mozilla Italia has an agreement with the foundation, but I'm interested which page you're looking at
[04:26:55] <Pike> maybe that needs rewording
[04:28:30] <FabryProg> pike.... you don't understand me or not understand the mozilla italia fondation?
[04:30:07] <Pike> I know that they exist, but haven't been looking into their legal structure too deeply. I'm a bit curious on how they ask for donations, though. You translation of that sounded like it could use some rewording
[04:30:22] Pike is Axel Hecht, a member of t